[Hokage]

Since minato is a genious, and I doubt the entire process happened in an instant (in the beginning of the anime you hear the ninjas saying "wait until the hokage arrives" meaning he had time to prepeare before he fought the kyuubi) I dont think its impossible for him to have thought it all out in the time he had from the kyuubis arrival to the moment he sealed it, the scroll has to have come from somewhere, and if minato wrote it he must have had a great amount of time too..

[pinoxus]

this thread is the best thread ive ever read
great theories.....
but it would be cool if some one gives explanation for the naruto's seal and key stuffs
im pretty confused,
in one chapter the kyubi asks naruto to remove the seal.
what would happen if the seal is removed?
will the kyubi come out resulting naruto dies?
there is a lot of reasons to why minato seals kyubi in naruto...


in the fight between 3rd hokage and orochimaru,
3rd hokage uses the sealing jutsu and says that it was the fourth's jutsu
and its a sacrificial jutsu....
but when the 3rd hokage uses it,orochimaru's hand gets sealed in 3rd's body>>
how come minato used the same sealing jutsu but seal the kyubi in baby that was obviously far away from where the fight between kyubi and konoha was
.................................................. .................................................. .................
iam pretty stupid so please ignore if u find it too troublesome

[Filip The Great]

Great find dude... And big thanks to WraithX959 for teaching you.

It explains a lot of things to those people who don't pay attention
to the manga. I think only 10% of us pay great attention to it..
I knew most of the things you said, but I could have never proved them
because I didn't know about the typhoon.
If you pay attention, or as Kishi said underneath he underneath, you will
know all of this with out knowing about the Gods and the combination forming typhoon.

I personally have followed the manga with great attention and
my analysis can prove that. I've also reread the manga two times.
The fact that naruto and sasuke remain brothers and friends no meter what
is in deed true. Even tho they don't want to accept that the fact still remains...

But I noticed something...
The connection you mentioned between senju and uchiha...
You can never combine that connection now...
The sanju clan does no longer exist, beside Tsunade we haven't seen
any one else from that clan...
I think the senju is mixed within the other clans..

What does kakashi have to do with the senju..?
Or naruto, or any one else..?
I still don't rule out their existence BUT we haven't seen
any kind of activity that involves them...

Back on Naruto and sauske...
Yes the will never forget each other and I too think the'll
both fight against madara, and that may be the end of the manga,
unles kishi involves someone else...
I think I've said this already...

I have a suggestion for the end.
Why don't you make a summary of all the legends and religions kishi has used..
I had an intention of doing that, but I'm just amazed buy this post,
so if you like you can go ahead and do it...

Edit:I have read some of the replies and would like to answer.
@Hokage, yes i think Minato in deed had already prepared few things, he was constantly learning and studying and inventing stuff... So he must have had the scroll and that jutsu already, well maybe not completed but very close to it.
So he needed time to prepare, just like every ninja, and our very example is Naruto, he always arrives last, with a new jutsy. The same must have happened to Minato.
Or he was waiting for naturo's birth

@pinoxus
Ok let's have a short explanation for you too
First let me begin with the seals..
Minato split the Kyuubi's chakra into TWO pieces...
Yin and Yang... And he sealed them in 2 different bodies...


Bottom left panel
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/12/
Minato sealed the yin chakra in to himself, using the
shiki fuujin(Shiki fuujin=death god sealing jutsu, the one the 3rd used)
So that part of the kyuub is dead, along with Minato...

But he sealed the yang chakra in naruto, using the 5 part seal...
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/13/
Now about the key...
The frog which has the key can twist naruto's seal.
Reinforcing it or loosening it...
Jiraiya loosened the seal once but naruto wasn't powerful enough
to control the Kyuubi and the Kyuubi took over him..
4 tails is to much for naruto (Well maybe now he can control it...)
If you twist the seal open, all of the Kyuubis chakra will be available for Naruto,
But if he isn't powerful enough he'll die and the kyuubi will be reformed..
(After the 4 tails appear naruto's body takes shape of a fox and it slowly burns)
And if he can control it he can Turn in to the Fox, with no damage to his body..
Just like the 8-tails...
SO this leaves the question of:
Why did minato want through all that trouble of splitting the chakra into two parts

This is where the theory of this threads connect to this post.
It that very same chapter, if you look underneath the underneaths,
you will see that even Minato knew of Madara's existence...
This is what Jiraiya suspects too.
He leaved the fox to naruto so he can use it in the final battle...
But wait... Madara can control the kyuubi...
Well my friends.. Naruto has got one part of the kyuubi, and let's hope
that is the part which madara cannot control.

If this is the case, the typhoon along side the Kyuubi(which is also a part of a myth)
will definitely beat Madara... A perfect match for his EMS and abilities

Now I have to read about the Kekkei Genkai....
OK... From the beginning I'm very disappointed...
Ok.. Now I'm very very disappointed...
Why did I even read that... ... -_-"

I think he is confused.... ALOT..
I don't rule out some of the things, cuz the have already
been confirmed by the manga, but many are just out of no where...

If you guys want I can give a counter reply to that...
But only if you want, cuz I'm not in the mood of writing it now..
+ Spending my time during the holidays on a thread...

[schickmaschine]

What I want to say beforehand is that I've had a lot of fun in this thread and forum so far and there are a lot of smart people here as I see, and interested people as well so please keep on posting and I will keep on posting.

Filip The Great, I don't remember saying that there was any special connection between Uchiha and Senju, I'm claiming that Senju and Uzumaki are related by blood. I don't need anything of the Senju clan except for the knowledge of Hashirama. But since it's in all their gened I know that the entire Senju clan has that ability technically. And the rest of the connection I presented. We know that Senju formed Konoha so the signs and symbols throughout Konoha are mainly from them. That's how my theory connects up Uzumaki and Senju.

Sorry guys, when I said that Minato only sealed the yang into Naruto, I used the wrong wording. What I actually meant was: Minato sealed Kyuubi's yang chakra into Naruto's chakra system and Kyuubi's yin chakra behind the seal in Naruto's mind.

(The foundation of this theory can be traced back to Kiroisenko and myself.)

  Spoiler: text 

Ok. Before I do the miserable explanation for this, and I really don't like how Kishi did this I'll tell you something about yin and yang. There are special rules when concerning yin and yang. One is called "dynamic equilibrium" The principle of this rule goes something like this: Yin and Yang are always balanced. Since they arise together, they are always equal. This means that if one disappears, the other disappears, leaving emptiness. Yin can be slower than yang or the other way around but the end result must be equal.

Aplying this to the seal... Let's assume that the Kyuubi was parted into yin and yang chakra. The Yang chakra was sealed right in with Naruto's chakra. The yin chakra on the other hand was forced into a seal in Naruto's mind. The chakra is apart breaking the rule of the dynamic equilibrium to some extent. We already know that it may be parted but it will eventually be reunited.

The yang chakra in the meanwhile is with Naruto's chakra. We have Kyuubi's yang chakra which can't balance itself out with the normal yin chakra and we have Naruto's normal chakra, not yin and not yang. But when the yang chakra is sealed inside the normal chakra, the normal chakra changes. The dynamic equilibrium kicks in here. Naruto's chakra taints itself to a yinnish state to balance the yang chakra running through his chakra system. The dynamic equilibrium forces a balance in Naruto's chakra system and his own yin chakra decides the rest, releasing his Kekkai Genkai.

The sage chakra is known for "strengthening" the sage's own chakra by adding natural energy to the chakra. When the natural energy strengthens the chakra, Naruto's chakra will grow more sinister. What do we know of dark chakra that is sinister? I can control Kyuubi. That is the connection of the two Kekkai Genkais that can control Kyuubi. The sinister chakra.

  Spoiler: picture 

After awakening the Kekkai Genka (my assumption) Naruto will be able to use the necklace to fully control Kyuubi's chakra with his own.

Ok so this is why the yin chakra is also within the seal. But now, back to the seal. We have to keep an eye on Kishimoto's wording here. He's a very tricky man. First let's check something out.

This is the seal, where Kyuubi's yin chakra would be. No matter what theory you believe some kind of chakra is in here:

  Spoiler: picture 

Now when Naruto draws on extra Kyuubi chakra it is terrifying. Let's look at the Neji x Naruto fight:

  Spoiler: picture 

The chakra comes out of this seal. Now let's look at some of yin and yang traits:

  Spoiler: chart 

Notice: Death, passive and matter (in contrast to spritual = physical)

Death stands for terrifying which his chakra is and that it damages his body. Passive because it's in the seal and not constantly being used. And last but not least physical, not spiritual:

  Spoiler: picture 

The chakra strengthens his body not his mind.

Also, You remember Jiraya saying this:

  Spoiler: picture 

We can explain it by saying that the dynamic equalibrium is the rule to this. The seal has to weaken because the yin chakra behind the cage and the yang in Naruto's body want to mix together again.

About the Kekkai Genkai. We can assume that by making Naruto's chakra lean towards yin Naruto gains the abilty to do three things. One would be use the necklace of the first. Second: He can use his sinister chakra to control Kyuubi's chakra. And third he gains an ability which allows him to use two chakra nature alterations (fire, wind, lightning, earth, water, yin-yang) at once. (I'm not saying he will use Hyouton or Mokutun)

Is this enough evidence or should I do my best and explain the seal? I'm not very good at this theory but I can try.

Mainly it's about the seal being on Naruto and not on Minato. So the Kyuubi was dragged into Naruto and not into him. Minato paid with his life and everything was sealed into Naruto. The chakra of Kyuubi was parted before so it was sealed in the body and yin in the cage.

As long as the seal isn't on Minato the chakra wouldn't be sealed inside him and we know where the seal is...

Also look at this:

  Spoiler: picture 

Naruto is on the white, yang side. Kyuubi is on the yin side, behind the SEAL.

  Spoiler: picture of seal 

The "water at Naruto's feet is the chakra. The white chakra is yang, the dark chakra is yin. Just look at the two sides.

If this doesn't suffice, check out Kiroisenko's theory:
Kiroiseko's theory - link

[Filip The Great]

Sorry, you are wrong...
Read the Pages I provided first...

Yang chakra is sealed in to naruot
and the Yin chakra is sealed in to Minato, which is dead...
So you are all wrong in there...
It is clearly said that ONLY the YANG chakra
is sealed in to naruto, so no need of theories here...

Look again: Naruto 370 page 13 | One Manga
Top left panel.
Should I go in to the trouble of explaining it to you...
Yes I should, so other readers wont get confused...

The seal on narutos body look similar to the Shiki Fujin seal, but its not the same...
Naruto's seal

This seal keeps the kyuubi imprisoned but allows the chakra to flow through
the upper and lower seals in to the middle
This is where the chakra system connects (the belly)
And this is the very same seal that keeps the kyuubi behind those bars...
And the very same seal is made when when naruto seeks chakra to leek the chakra...
Also if the Key frog is turned the seal loosens and the gates open so even more chakra leeks out
What gates am I talking about... Well these gates..

So.... What do you have t say...?

Shiki Fuujin

Now this is the seal that the 3rd and Minato have on their bodies..

You are looking on all of this from the wrong side...
+ Mixing Naruto's Kekkei Genkai.. Which has nothing to do with it...
First of all, do you actually know what a Kekkei Genkai is..?
Even sakura can create one, but just for her self....
The same hapened to the First Hokage, he created a Kekkei Genkai
but just for him self, the kekkei genkai (Wood) wasn't passed to him through his blood...

So Naruto can create a kekkei genkai on his own... But I don't think he'll ahve a KG passed down from some one...
maybe later next week I'll give a detailed anti theory on the KG theory from Wraith...
I know about yin and yang but Kishi used it in it's own way...
So you cannot go against the Creator of the Manga..

Hum.. What else should I say...
(It's late over my place and I'm very very tiered, so I forgot what I wanted to write..)
OK I'll give a detailed pose on all of this...
One thing you should learn schickmaschine IS this:

Never relay on other peoples theories until you do your own research too...
Cuz I see you relay on lots of people... Which might be wrong...
(The theory of Kekkei Genkai, the seal theory, the senju clan theory..)
I see all of those wrong...

But I'm amazed by your efforts, you should continue like this,
but think more rationally and more about the manga itself, rather than other factors...
It doesn't matter how long your post is or how many pics you put
the thing which matters is the content and the reality...

Ok as I said it's pretty late so I'm off...
(This might seem a lot of messy...)

[schickmaschine]

Ahh, Filip the great ^^ And the first discussion begins. Let's start by points and then decide via a checklist. Mythology is on my side. Dynamic equilibrium decides that yin and yang may not be apart. Of course I've done this discussion before and you take the side that most people do. I have heard all of your arguments.

And don't worry, I've done all the research by myself. I never quote people for quoting's sake. I know everything on my own behalf. And of course I know what a Kekkai genkai is. Pls don't be passive aggressive. And by the way, no Sakura can't create a Kekkai genkai. Do your own research :P

Kekai Genkais are genetic mutations which surface in a bodily abiltiy that differs from normal people. Also you can't "create" a Kekkai Genkai. Some Kekkai Genkais have activation requirements. Like the MS needs you to kill your brother.

Okay but let's continue. There is no need for theories. The manga states that the yang chakra is in Naruto. Correct. Where does it state that the yin isn't? It says that the yin is within the Shiki Fuujin. It doesn't state where the seal is.

What we find is a seal within Naruto. A simple sign which says: "Seal."

Ok, so assuming that this is right, which you can choose freely. If you say that I'm wrong then what does the seal stand for? For the yang chakra? That can't be. The yang chakra is right in Naruto's chakra system. It even heals him so it isn't hidden in a seal as you know. So what is behind the seal?

[Filip The Great]

ZOMG I have waited for this...
Before the discussion begins (which isnt a first on for me, not it'll be the last one)
you can look through out my work on this forum, and you'll know why I know so many things...

As I said it's late and I have so many things so many ideas, words sentences going through my mind which I cannot sort out...
(Yes you can call it a kind of madness... )
So I shall begin the discussion tomorrow and make sure to be ready...
Cuz as I said I don' value post length or post count, I value reputation,
base MANGA facts, and firm answers...

I hate a theory being based on theories which are based on other theories, which
leads to empty talk and dust in the wind... Plus the forgetting of the manga presence...
Also I hate stuff taken out of ther context, so please follow what I say and I will follow what you say
Example: There was a theory in another forum which was
based like that and was 3 full posts long..
I prove it wrong with just 1 post...

Also I have many things going in my head about your last post..
But I'll say just one thing, why does one goes through a freaking
trouble of splitting the chakra into 2 and sealing it with 2 other seals in to
a same body, when that can be done with one seal...
I think I know what you'll say... but let me wait and see...
We have a saying in our country, "a fast bitch(female dog-_-") gives birth to blind dogs"
So have a good look at your answers, and make sure you confirm them..
Another saying says "Measure 3 times and cut one time"...

Plus one more thing: using the Shiki Fuujin requires the casters body, right..?
The hands of the death god get out from the casters body and than they pull back
the soul of the victim(enemy) in to the casters own body, sealing the soul...
So Minato used the Shiki Fuujin on him self cuz he is the one which cast it
Unless naruto was the one who cast Shiki Fuujin...

All tho Kishi uses mythology he never stick to ONE mythology he uses a variety of them...
And he doesn't always follow it to the exact point where he is copying it...

As for the Gate and the paper note which says seal...
have you not heard of visually representing something...?
If you haven't Kishi and I have heard of that...

The seal on naruto's belly is visually represented by the gates...
And the water(which isn't water at all, but it's chakra) represents the leaking...
And the seal WAS designed for that..

I explained that in the previous post, if you haven' read it..
I even provided you with the 2 pictures of the
Shiki Fuujin seal and the other seal used on naruto....

ZOMG I said I would stop and continue the discussion tomorrow...
See what I mean I have thousands of thoughts flying in my mind...

The RP I'm creating, the bleach discussion I'm having, this discussion,
other discussion, ideas for my next drawing, for my book...
WTF.. I'm of to sleep... And this seem s so messy you might not be able to understand it
It's always like this my brain just goes nuts late at night...

Before this continues, I would suggest of another place for this discussion
This thread is about Naruto reuniting with Sasuke which is correct.
I was saying this since the very beginning sasuke left, now you
only confirmed that with the myth about the storm gods

I would also suggest that you need to stop confusing people with the Senju clan
cuz they are over and don't exist anymore so don't involve them...

Plus naruto's kekkei genkai..
A theory based on theories which are based on other theories,
which distances all of this from the manga core...

EDIT: I think I'll write that counter theory about the Kekkei genkai soon, cuz
I've noticed a lot of mistakes and confusion..

[Naruto&Jiraiya]

@ filip: Not to butt in, but don't you think you are coming off a bit rude in disproving his theory. Oh and filip it also seems like you are talking down to him cause he new to the site or thats just how it comes off. If thats the case all I say is that there is a way saying something so don't sound like you are being condescending. But that is just my perspective.

Oh, so this isn't complete spam umm.... I think that its possible that both parts of the beast are sealed in Naruto. Even though it is also likely that the yang was only seal and Naruto and then the yin was sealed in the demon. I also believe that the technique the third used was the same as the 4th, but his method of sealing was completely different. It is kind of obvious just by looking at the seal on third and comparing it to Naruto's. If I remember back on it correctly the thrid was taking Oro soul right? and the Fourth was moving its chakra or something I am not totally sure. It seems like it would take to totally different methods or something. (Sorry if that sounded like it was all over the place I started writing it, took a break, went to go get some food, then came back to finish)

Also, again I apologize for sticking my nose in on what guys are talking about. It just seemed like you were being rude for no reason and i felt like i had to say something. (plus I also wanted to chime in on the discussion about where the kyubii power was being sealed.

[schickmaschine]

Continued answer:

  Spoiler: text 

Put your text in spoilers and we can discuss it here. I do the same. Don't think I'm being respectless but I don't care about your life so don't post nonsense. I'm interested in discussion about Naruto, not about your life, so please refrain from wasting my time or don't try to discuss.

You say that you value this:

Cuz as I said I don' value post length or post count, I value reputation, base MANGA facts, and firm answers...

but post tons of crap. Please stop doing that. I also don't care about the sayings of your country. About Naruto, nothing else as long as I'm in Forums. I said that I'd met people that are smart but until now you haven't proven yourself to be one of these people. You are also relatively ignorant because you don't read through my posts or reasoning.

Also you say this:

I would also suggest that you need to stop confusing people with the Senju clan cuz they are over and don't exist anymore so don't involve them...

but you are the one who asked me to elaborate in the first place. ??? Please stop posting crap.

If this happens again we won't be discussing and I will ignore you so that you don't disturb my thread. Back to the couple usefull sentances you wrote.

Originally Posted by Filip The Great

But I'll say just one thing, why does one goes through a freaking
trouble of splitting the chakra into 2 and sealing it with 2 other seals in to
a same body, when that can be done with one seal...

As I said, you don't read my posts. I explained the Kekkai Genkai. And don't deny it. Even my theory on the "strong" yin chakra fits.

  Spoiler: picture 

Pls read thouroughly and don't ask a question that I answered. Naruto&Jiraya is completely right they are two different sealing methods. I'm actually quite surprised at how simililar our understandings are, so props to you Naruto&Jiraya.

Originally Posted by Filip The Great

Plus one more thing: using the Shiki Fuujin requires the casters body, right..?
The hands of the death god get out from the casters body and than they pull back
the soul of the victim(enemy) in to the casters own body, sealing the soul...
So Minato used the Shiki Fuujin on him self cuz he is the one which cast it
Unless naruto was the one who cast Shiki Fuujin...

wrong. And this means that you didn't read Kiroisenko's theory... You misunderstood. Look at the sealing process again. There is a difference between Sandaime's sealing and Minato's sealing. A difference which we can see.
The caster uses Shiki Fujin, then he lays the seal on someone. The arm comes out of the seal and pulls in the sould or the chakra. This is sealed within the body with the seal. Then the caster loses his life.

  Spoiler: pictures 

Those were his Kage bunshin. It proves that you can put the seal on different people. Minato put the seal on Naruto, then the arm pulled Kyuubi into Naruto. MInato parted it into yin and yang, the yang went into the chakra system and the yin into the seal.

Originally Posted by Filip The Great

As for the Gate and the paper note which says seal...
have you not heard of visually representing something...?
If you haven't Kishi and I have heard of that...

Sure I have. Seals usually visually represent seals. Kyuubi calls it a seal so it's a seal and it says that he can't come out: link

So again, what does this mean? The yang is in the body healing him. But when he gets chakra from the gate it hurts him. What does this mean? One part is sealed away not in Naruto but if there is only yang then what is healing him?

Originally Posted by Filip The Great

The seal on naruto's belly is visually represented by the gates...
And the water(which isn't water at all, but it's chakra) represents the leaking...
And the seal WAS designed for that..

That can't be right. It isn't "leaking." Because Naruto can control the chakra. He can decide to go 4-tails and he can go back again. Would the chakra be leaking back in or what do you mean?

Anyways, I want your opinion on this chakra as well:

  Spoiler: picture 

Why is there white and black chakra if there is only one chakra type? That would be either white or black. But there is white and black chakra there.

But that's not all. For Naruto, the character yin and yang is extremely important Look at this:

  Spoiler: picture 

Now look at the sign on Naruto's shoulder. It's his clan sign. I don't think that Kishi would ignore the clan sgn's meaning:

  Spoiler: picture 

[Filip The Great]

Ok....
@ Naruto&Jiraiya
Not at all... I'm just saying what I think...
I only said how the Kyuubi is sealed and he said I was wrong,
so I said what I think.. I'm not bringing him down at all...
I never even thought of that....

BTW you mentioned the seals...
If you read my previous post, you'll see the answers to it..
The seals on the third are from the Shiki Fuujin
and those on naruto are from the other seal Minato made..

The proof I can use to prove that the seal on naruto's belly
isn't the Shiki Fuujin, is the Key frog... The Shiki Fujin seals the soul completely,
and We can clearly see the seal on naruto is some other seal + it has a key
to open it or close it.
So I think I have cleared the difference...

@schickmaschine
Now Naruto &Jiraiya who do you think is bashing the other person..?
Please read his post and tell me does it worth for me to answer him..?
Shouldn't I be the offended one..? If the dude can not take a talk from another person men to men than he shouldn't even start a discussion...
There are always ups and downs
Well I wont sink so low on his level

And before I continue I'll say, a theory based on a theories
which are based on other theories, you say things which
are not connected and not jet confirmed... I guess you don't understand that..
And I'll be writing that Kekkei gengai Stuff tomorrow...